RED’s Time Already Past?
Will anybody care if the new Red Scarlet is a 3K camera, when before long Nikon and Canon will have 2k and maybe even 2K RAW?
Lots of my work now involves Canon footage. These are the same clients who were until recently bringing me footage from the RED One.
This is not about quality comparisons of RED vs. DSLRs – it’s about where the market is heading.
There are rumours surfacing Nikon D4s with 2K RAW recording. There are rumours of a Canon 5D MK3 with HD-SDI output.
These may be false rumours but can RED afford to have its new flagship camera range also qualifies as little more than a rumour? Every month that Scarlet is not getting to the market, means the DSLRs user base grows.
The general response of RED users on RedUser forum is to deride the quality of H.264 and write off DSLRs as ‘prosumer’. But much of the market thinks that 1080p h.264 is more than good enough for them.
In many ways RED and its users are starting to sound like the film world did when the RED One started to ship.
Jim Jannard initially pitched the Scarlet as a DSMC – Digital Still & Motion Camera – and claimed it would be a DSLR killer, and that it would be a camera for “soccer moms.”
But the DSLRs are already invading that space.
While it is hard to know exactly where this “DSLR Revolution” will settle, it seems very clear that the playing field has changed significantly since RED imagined and announced their second generation of cameras.
I for one, would like to stay loyal to RED but I have to work with what my clients bring me.
Hopefully the new product range from RED will be released in the not too distant future, but it be too late?
Interesting comments on freshdv.com regarding statement from Jim Jannard regarding DSLR “Can you make OK images with a line-skipping 1080P camera? Sure. Should you be embarrassed? Yes.”
http://www.freshdv.com/2010/06/open-mouth-insert-dslr.html
It should be noted in that post of Jim’s, however, that he was saying the manufacturer’s should be embarrassed to be making something with such a fundamental weakness. He’s right in a way, but clearly it was a pretty inflamatory statement.
Well firstly the proposed Scarlet is not their flagship future camera, it’s a budget line version of their EPIC system. It’s aimed at the budget orientated market…and yes, this is the market Canon have flooded into. Resolution aint everything and everyone knows how these cameras work where a true 1080p resolved resolution needs closer to 3K (ALEXA) and the current “1080″ DSLRs resolve little more than SD. 2K resolves about 720. But again resolution isn’t everything, and image quality, size, functionality, price and flexibility…it all adds up.
Your correct in saying a lot has changed and is still changing and the Canons have proved very very popular. The only real downside to their proposed Scarlet i can see is the 2/3″ sensor and not offering a FF sensor. Every…and i mean EVERY other spec and functionality they are touting completely and utterly without any argument overwhelms anything that is on offer and also rumoured to be on offer from Nikon and Canon as DSLR’s. Canons are here now and enjoying a dream run because at that pricepoint there is nothing that competes and there is nothing on the market to compete with, that’s it! I look at it like when tv went from tubes to chips, SP to Digibetacam, SD to HD, it’s all new tech excitement…as the image quality and functionality is utter crap, it won’t take much to overtake. But jeez, look out if Canon actually get serious!
Your touting is basically which rumour and future proposed cameras will be best, but until something is actually out…well it’s just good argument. And you can bet that a company like RED and what they believe in are going to release something that is cutting edge, WAY better value for money with image quality far ahead of anything near it’s pricepoint. They have been very quiet on the Scarlet front and to think that it isn’t going to make a very very very big presence when it is finally released is just folly. But heh, the time it is taking it could be end of year easily! Until then for lower budget and for certain applications the Canons will keep on rolling and keep on taking big market share in these areas.
I should have referred to the camera range – the Epic and Scarlet are both from the DSMC range.
There is plenty of evidence that the current RED One, and presumably the new cameras, are significantly better technically – but the point really is that every day they are not shipping is another day that Canon is shipping thousands of units, and another day that Sony, Panasonic and others are developing their own large-sensor video cameras.
While they won’t offer 3K or 4K images immediately, they will offer a 1080P Raster with, I hope, much better performance than the current DSLRs.
As much as Jannard protests that 1080P is tomrrow’s VHS (which is somewhat true), the fact that it is today’s 1080P, and for most people that’s quite enough.
Last I was aware, RED were sticking with Scarlets in 2/3, S35, and FF sensors..
- actually, correct grammar in your headline requires “Passed,” not “Past.”
since you’re nitpicking.
I’ve changed that, although I’m not sure ‘nitpicking’ is quite accurate.
I don’t understand what your trying to get at Dylan…your trying to say is if a certain cameras time is up before it is released and even revealed in it’s full against other cameras that are only rumoured about and wished for. How can you possibly argue this when neither is out, neither has been seen in the flesh, neither have any images out, neither are in prototype (that we know of), neither has a price…how can you possibly formulate an argument with these factors? Scarlet is a proposed ‘budget’ version of the EPIC camera system and is still only on paper without working prototypes and has just been set back with the problems at Foxconn. There is nothing form Canon or Nikon bar rumours. Besides, what the video function on a DSLR is is a small way towards the DSMC system. A system that is attempting to bridge a gap in the market properly and with equal functionality on both stills and motion capturing. Canon have started this with amazing success pretty much by accident and the Canons can hardly be called a professional motion capture device…there is nothing professional about them bar the fact that they are being used by some professionals. The only really good argument is when the next generation come out from Canon or Nikon and the DSMC system and especially Scarlet at it’s pricepoint for fare comparison is very small budget systems available to buyers. or the argument of what these systems need to offer now the precedent has been set.
While the technical and visual argument is without a doubt a current winning Red One V Canon fact. The Red One is in a different league and is unfair to both to pit it against the DSLR’s. Again the argument is what will be the ideal specs, functionality and pricepoint for either future DSLR’s or the proposed Scarlet system. FF seems to be the key ingredient closely alongside size and pricepoint but FF being the key…why else would people be prepared to put with the arguable crappy video and painstaking workflow etc etc of the current DSLR’s? FF then size and price. That is why as soon as there is something that is a proper “professional” camera that can do both, be FF and fit in with the size and pricepoint that has been set by this certain market now it will just take over completely. But until then, the current DSLR’s will just keep on steaming ahead.
1080p IS enough for a lot of todays needs as the tech required for isn’t there yet, but Jannard and RED are specifically aiming at both the future (as 4K projection is reality) and they are making the prime camera, EPIC, at the cinema market, not episodic television and commercials etc. This is also a major point. The Scarlet’s are the ones for this other market and that is why they are primarily looking at 3K…because THAT is what is required for common 1080p finish. Again, look at Arri with the ALEXA! The current DSLR’s don’t cut it and arn’t even classified as HD by the BBC! That is why it’s so important to argue the makers of the next generation of budget line FF cameras to get it right, no matter if it’s RED, Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panna etc…whoever. Times are exciting and at least RED are making the big boys pull their socks up and do better…hence his ‘be embarrased’ statement.
Actually…after re-reading my rant and your original post i get what your saying and i pretty much made the same argument. My bad, i too have been battling some people here about all of this. The same people that argued that the Red One had too many little things that bothered them now are ready to accept the pictures and issues from DSLR’s. Unbelievable!
I have a friend who bought a Red and sold it. Bought a DSLR. He shoots mainly television commercials. His clients could care less about technical specs. If the pictures look good, then everyone is happy. That said, both he and his DSLR are working a lot more days than he and his Red were.
Hi Dennis:
This was exactly my situation. I never shot so much in my life since I use the DSLR´s. The accessories are terribly expensive but most of them are future proof so I am happy with it. Of course they aren´t the perfect cameras but what is perfect after all?What I know is that I paid them countless times so this is what my work is about.
PROFESSIONAL= MAKING YOUR LIVING OUT OF WORKING and I succeed in doing that with the DSLR´s.